Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 21 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1237



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Updated GT 5 dTon Shuttles
Re: Supporting our game...>
Re Imp Monies
Re: Supporting our game...>
Re: Army missions...
RE: Ditzie's Warrant Followup
RE: Cardboard Heroes & Glenn Grant 
Re: J Andrew Keith CV
Re: J Andrew Keith CV
Re : Drive Destruct Sequencing
RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)
Re: Supporting our game...<
Re : Cybernetic Implants
Re : Traveller - the 1970's with starships? (longish)
RE: Vorkostigan series 
RE: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)
Re: "new" critter

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 02:46:43 -0500
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Updated GT 5 dTon Shuttles

As if I haven't already consumed enough bandwidth ... 

I have made modifications based on what most of you have said 
and suggested:

I have changed the armor to Expensive Metal (interesting that every 
other ship I created had this ... these didn't for some reason).

Installed Roomy Crew Stations for the TL8/9 versions.  

As John pointed out, there doesn't appear to be any fresher 
capability included with passengers seats.  Well, just handwave it.  If 
you just have to have it, then remove a couple of seats and put in a 
folding bunk but be sure to note that in any descriptions.

Revised the description on the time it takes to reach orbit with and 
without an atmosphere.  This is really only a problem at TL8/9 due 
to the low sAcc parameter.

I hope this batch is better :)

http://209.39.36.25/GTShuttles/


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:23:35 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: Supporting our game...>

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Supporting our game



>
> And what ever you do, avoid any planet entirely peopled by Australians.
> While they are freindly sorts, will crack open a tinny for you on the
> slightest pretext, and do great barbaques, after a few days your crew will
> start talking like them, leading to uncontrollable outbursts of violence
> from those who just can't stand the 'strine accent.
>
>
> Frankie
>
>

Would that be that system called "Vaginamite" I saw on one (Reaver's Deep?)
of the online maps?  I always suspected that of being an Aussie named world,
probably populated with Aussies.

Bewdybottlerockersportgrousetube mate!

- -- The Roc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:36:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Imp Monies

>>Great pic. The Imperial money was also terrific, but I believe both should
>>probably have both Galanglic and Bilanidin script.
>
>There's always a critic ;)
>
>I considered in for the bill, but I kind of dropped the idea. I'm becoming a
>genuine CT purist these days, and the Vilani seem to play a different role
>there. Galanglic is the lingua franca, and I'm of the opinion that it should
>be the only lingua on the Franc! ;)
>
Dude, check out the illo in "The Traveller Adventure" in the library data
area... it has a scipt vaguely reminiscent of Arabic... and arabic (modern)
numerals.

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 01:43:16 -0700
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Supporting our game...>

>Would that be that system called "Vaginamite" I saw on one (Reaver's Deep?)
of the online maps?  I always suspected that of being an Aussie named world,
probably populated with Aussies.
>
I *hope* you meant Vegemite...

Kiri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan            93!              Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com

the current fair warnings:

"No matter what, expect the unexpected.  And whenever
possible, BE the unexpected."     -- Lynda Barry

"Honest to the point of recklessness, and self-centered
 in the extreme."            -- Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia

"God sent me to piss the world off!"  -- Eminem

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:59:03 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: Army missions...

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Army missions



> This is relevant to the original point of "small, regular" armies - the
> Australian and NZ forces aren't "really" meant to be such, but rather are
> intended to be a nucleus for a (slightly) larger, short service force,
> whether mobilised reservists, newly enlisted volunteers, conscripts, or a
> mixture.  In fact, in World War II, Australia used a mixture.  In Korea,
> there seems to have been a specially recruited volunteer force - a
> temporary expansion of the regular forces, and in Vietnam, conscripts were
> used.  Apparently, at least some Reservists are being *asked* to go on
> full-time to help with the manpower problems associated with the tiny East
> Timor deployment.
>
> Of course, the regular cadre force can, and does, deal with small
> deployments, which is primarily what the Australian forces have been doing
> in recent decades, so the cadre form is actually the normal one in which
> such an army will exist.
>

Conscription never came to the Australian military until Vietnam.  Then,
after Vietnam, it was policy that Australian troops would not be used in any
overseas conflict other than "peace keeping operations." (although I believe
there was a caveat mentioning something to the effect of "until a period of
at least 50-years").  This was slightly broken when the RAN sent warships in
support of her American Allies and the Multi-national forces in the Middle
East against Sadam.  "Slightly broken" in the sense that Australia (as far
as the public are concerned) never took part in any actual fighting.

The Australian Armed Forces are basically a reactionary force in defence of
our home shores (and the most highly trained of these being north ender
reservists!).  Should the <insert possible Asian antagonists here> invade
this wide brown land, the concept is to defend and hold (if not expulsion of
the enemy) until our dear friends and allies, the Americans, come and help
us out logistically and with manpower as required.

Okay, this is the 90's (well, nearly the 22nd century), and I will admit
that this doctrine was valid in the 70's and 80's... I am not sure if it
still stands at this time, but I can find out when my mates get back from
Timor.  :^)

- -- The Roc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:10:47 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Ditzie's Warrant Followup

Pretty weird.  Did anyone get those to you?  If not, I can hit 'em again and
e-mail directly to you.

Best,
Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Benyamene'
> ZeAbe' Akella
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 10:13 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Ditzie's Warrant Followup
>
>
> > Make sure "show graphics" is on in your browser.
> > Jesse
>
> Oh, I got that on. And all other sites come through fine, with
> pictures and
> everything, it's just the warrant and credit 3 that are hiding behind some
> fat byte somewhere. Strange.
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:11:49 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Cardboard Heroes & Glenn Grant 

You betcha' ;)

Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Keven R.
> Pittsinger
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 10:57 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes & Glenn Grant 
> 
> 
> > Crap, I'd really meant to change the title to refer to what I 
> was saying.
> > Hate it when I do that!!!
> > Jesse
> > 
> > 
> > > I hereby nominate Glenn Grant to draw some NEW pictures for a new
> > > set of Traveller Cardboard Heroes!  Who's with me?
> 
> As to the 2nd comment, *DEFINITELY*.  If he leaves the room, he's 
> *elected*.
> 
> <grin>
> 
> As to the first comment, well, might be an idea to beersi *after* 
> keyboarding, eh?
> 
> Keven
> 
> -- 
> tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
>                                                      
> Science-Fiction Adventure
>                                                      In Reavers' Deep
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:02:23 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: J Andrew Keith CV

Loren wrote:

>I'm writing a short tribute to Andy for the upcoming Pyramid, and I'd like
>to include a list of Traveller titles he authored...trouble is, I don't
>have acess to my archives

>Can someone here provide me with a list of titles that Andy wrote?


Do you mean books or journal articles?


Those who have _The Traveller Bibliography_ will know the answer to the
first bit of that if they check the author index:

Keith, J. Andrew
(See also John Marshal)
  Alien Module 1: Aslan
  Alien Module 2: K'Kree
  Alien Module 3: Vargr
  Alien Module 4: Zhodani
  Alien Module 5: Droyne
  Alien Module 7: Hivers
  Alien Realms
  Aliens for Traveller
  Ascent to Anekthor
  Beltstrike
  Chamax Plague
  Escape
  Exotic Atmospheres: Special Supplement 2
  The Fate of the Sky Raiders
  Flight of the Stag
  Grand Census
  Grand Survey
  The Harrensa Project/The Stazlekh Report
  Horde
  The Legend of the Sky Raiders
  Letter of Marque
  Merchant Prince: Special Supplement 1
  The Mountain Environment
  Murder on Arcturus Station
  Night of Conquest
  Nomads of the World Ocean
  Ordeal by Eshaar
  A Pilot's Guide to the Drexilthar Subsector
  Salvage Mission
  The Trail of the Sky Raiders
  The Traveller Adventure
  The Travellers' Aid Society Alien Encyclopedia
  The Undersea Environment
  Uragyad'n of the Seven Pillars
  World Builder's Handbook

Marshal, John
(pseudonym of J. Andrew Keith)
  Startown Liberty
  Wanted: Adventurers


[NB: Not included in this list are the other 'Lost Supplements' that Paul
Sanders is in the process of publishing.  Letter of Marque is included
above as it's 'out'.]


And if you want the journal articles he wrote in JTAS, Challenge, The
MegaTraveller Journal, The Travellers' Digest, or Traveller Chronicle, then
you need look no further than the author index of the second volume of
bibliography I've compiled.  Note: this hasn't been published yet but I'm
CCing Andy Lilly in the hopes that this might encourage him that such
material is wanted by fellow Traveller fans!  (This second volume of
bibliography covers *all* the individual articles in the 'big 5'
periodicals listed above).


Loren, if you need to know what issues etc., these are from, that will take
a bit more work, but let me know.


Keith, J. Andrew (see also Keith Douglas and John Marshal)
  Adventures in Traveller: Exploration
  Adventures in Traveller: Trade and Commerce
  Adventures in Traveller: Wilderness Situations
  Azun
  Care and Feeding of NPCs
  Civilian Striker Weapons
  Closest Encounter, The
  Computer Implants
  Computer Software for High Guard
  Contact: Ael Yael
  Contact! Aslan
  Contact: The Girug'kagh
  Contact: The Virushi
  Dev Landrel
  Drannixa Gambit, The
  Emil "Boomer" Brankovich
  Enli Iddukagan
  Fast "Johnny" McRae
  Garhawk
  Glorinna Firella
  Gunnar Haelvedssen
  Ice Crawler
  Lockbox
  Pilot's Guide to the Caledon Subsector, A, Traveller Chronicle 5
  Pilot's Guide to the Caledon Subsector, A, Traveller Chronicle 6
  Pilot's Guide to the Caledon Subsector, A, Traveller Chronicle 7
  Ramon SanYarvo
  Reavers' Deep Sector
  Referee's Guide to Planet-building, A
  Referee's Guide to Planet-building II, A
  Religion in the Two Thousand Worlds
  Ringaal DeAstera
  Royal Hunt
  Simone Garibaldi
  Small Package
  Striking it Rich
  Temperature in Traveller
  Three for the Road
  Torches and Welding Equipment
  Traveller: The Final Frontier
  Travelling Without a Starship
  Umpire Strikes Back!  The
  Vargr Corsair Bands
  Vargr Grav Platforms
  Vland!
  Wardn
  Wardn Enigma, The
  Without a Trace


[NB: His brother of course has a separate entry which I've not listed
here.]


Douglas, Keith (pseudonym of Keith brothers)
  Birthday Plot, The
  Contact: The Irklan
  Flares and Signalling Devices
  Gamaagin Kaashukiin
  Raid on Stataorlai



Marshal, John (pseudonym of Keith brothers)
  Afeahyakhtow: Small Cargos
  Afeahyalhtow: The Bestiary
  Crested Jabberwock
  Doyle's Eel
  Embassy in Arms
  Hkyadwaeh
  Hunting Bugs
  Luugir
  Parachutes
  Small Cargoes and Special Handling
  Tournament
  Tuktaar Connection, The
  Ventures Afar




And for all those 'other' magazines out there, here's what I know of which
may, of course, not be complete:


Compleat Starport, The; Keith, J. Andrew; Far & Away 1, Apr 1990
Flare Star; Keith, William H. & J. Andrew; Space Gamer 46, December 1981
I'm a Doctor, Not a...; Keith, J. Andrew; Space Gamer 47, January 1982
Newcomers, The; Keith, J. Andrew; Space Gamer 53, July 1982
Periastron; Keith, J. Andrew & William H.; Space Gamer 50, April 1982
Planetfall: supplementary material for MegaTraveller; Keith, J. Andrew; Far
& Away 1, Apr 1990





Hope this helps and from the above you can see why his loss is sorely felt
by Travellers everywhere.  All the best with writing the obituary.  Let me
know if there's anything else I can help with.

tc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:15:27 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: J Andrew Keith CV

I should add that the lists I've just sent don't note where Mr Keith was a
co-author - just everything he's listed as having a hand in or being the
sole author of.  If you need more detail let me know.

tc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:52:26 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Drive Destruct Sequencing

Eric Holmes wrote :-

> I was actually thinking along the lines of the drives overloading to
> critical mass
> if this is possible.
>
<sink overload concept snipped>

Depends on what rules set you have. Since fusion reactors (all the
experimental designs) can't 'go critical' like fission reactors can, I
would go with the capacitor overload idea.


> So how much destructive force is held in a 2000 megawatt drive?  Or is
> there a simple
> way of calculating this?
>
>
Check how many energy points you need to jump, if using High Guard. An
explicit amount of energy is mentioned in FF&S2 (64 MJ/cubic metre
displacement/jump number).

Convert this into a TNT mass equivalent, and... voila!

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:27:37 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)

> [I know that if you sign the SJG disclaimer and submit something to them
> for publication, you cannot put the same thing up on your website. That's
> why Jesse's images are different to the ones in the published G:T books,
> for example].

'S also why the one image that IS the same is plastered with "Test Image!
Not for duplication or redistribution!  Material Copyright c 1999 by Steve
Jackson Games.  All rights reserved".  Actually, it's not truly the final
version at that as they had me remove a contrail and un-blur the background
ships.

You can see the shot at
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/starports_cover.htm as
I'd never posted that link on my site.

Best,
Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:16:11 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: Supporting our game...<

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Supporting our game...>


> >Would that be that system called "Vaginamite" I saw on one (Reaver's
Deep?)
> of the online maps?  I always suspected that of being an Aussie named
world,
> probably populated with Aussies.
> >
> I *hope* you meant Vegemite...
>

I had asked some time ago (when I first subbed to this list) if any Aussies
had played a part in the naming of systems in that sub-sector because the
name leapt out at me.  I lost all my bookmarks shortly before I joined the
list, so I can't confirm or even say where to look now.  Although a world
named "Vegemite" would suit the culture. :^)

- -- The Roc
     (A happy little Vegemite :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:01:21 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Cybernetic Implants

Some more data points follow :-
Recall that the left hemisphere is dominant in 85-90% of the population,
regardless of handedness.

The motor cortex is located in the parietal lobe, on the upper convexity
of the brain about halfway between the frontal and occipital poles.

Other areas are involved in storing motor 'programs' :- zones of the
cortex near the areas involved with language, and importantly the
cerebellum at the base of the brain, behind the brain stem.

The cerebellum is the primary organiser of learned muscle movements, and
also regulates 'anti-gravity' muscle tone and responses to propioceptive
input.

The spinal cord deals mainly with reflex, stereotyped movements.
The evidence for spinal cord programming of more complex movements is a
bit lacking.

Leonard Erickson wrote :-

> Data point: I've read of a case where a Vietnam vet who'd effectivly
> been lobotomized by a shell fragment was still able to play his guitar.
> He could play any early Stones song you could name, but couldn't learn
> any new songs or even new chords.
>
The poor fellow had lost his temporal lobe and hippocampus, at a
minimum, if he can't lay down any new memory 'tracks'.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:15:56 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Traveller - the 1970's with starships? (longish)

This seems to be a perennial TML topic.

I reckon it's possible to shoe-horn all of the more interesting
possibilities based on developments since 1977 into the game. Loren
Wiseman has acknowledged this in part with the section on nanotech in
G:T, as Chris Seamans points out.

IMHO, the official Trav universe doesn't get close to Vingean
singularity over 3 millennia of progress because it's not as easy as the
Terran neopositivists of the late 20th - early 21st century thought it
would be (notwithstanding the fact that Vinge didn't really start the
ball rolling until the late '80s).

"If you really understand trend curves, you can extrapolate them into
the future and discover some baffling things. The speed trend curve
alone predicts that manned vehicles will be able to achieve near
infinite speeds by 1982... The trend curve for controllable energy is
rising rapidly... By 1981, this trend curve shows that a single man will
have available under his control the amount of energy equivalent to that
generated by the entire sun."

- - G. Harry Stine, 'Science Fiction is Too Conservative', Analog Science
Fact and Fiction, May 1961.

Nanotech? Femtotechnology (nuclear manipulation)? Bedevilled by problems
of quantum limits, thermal stability, fuelling, control failures (the
'great grey goo' problem) across average Imperial TLs.

Advanced biotech? In the RW, we have literally millions of data points
(more appear every day), and no obvious motifs to tie everything
together (I acknowledge evolution, chemistry and physics, but biological
order is *complex*).
    This data is from maybe 1/3 of the organisms on one planet ; it's
estimated that 1/2 to 2/3 of the organisms in our guts are unknown to
contemporary microbiology.

Cyborgs and personality uploading? The computing power required to model
*trillions* of components (neurons) 'talking' to each other is literally
mind-boggling. This obviously puts limits on robot and computer AI.
    I agree with Bill Hostman ; the cyberware that appeared in
Traveller's Digest is quite reasonable, compared with the various
cyberpunk RPGs (reflex or muscle power augmentation without mandatory
bone and tendon reinforcement? No way).
    The various 'medical' articles that have appeared in TD, etc. are
reasonably gentle too, dealing with regenerative and cloning tech, and
some not too over the top pharmaceuticals.

The OTU hasn't even explored the broader implications of :-
- - cheap fusion power ;
- - the ability to manipulate gravity, and the strong and weak forces.
(although I guess this may be outside the ambit of an RPG per se).

E.g. :-
Two 'canon' devices, laser gravitational focussing and the gravisonic
modulator, imply that the ability to manipulate gravity is very advanced
by average Trav tech levels.

The gravitational lensing required to focus lasers should have other
applications e.g. crash restraints for air/grav/space craft(?).

Pyro/cryokinesis can be simulated by the gravisonic modulator. All
refrigeration and heating units should operate on gravisonic principles
- - no moving parts to fail, no refrigerant gases/liquids to leak, etc.

One would think that laser grav focussing and the ability to produce
superdense materials should be intimately linked. Interestingly,
superdense appears at the same TTL as nuclear damper tech. The ability
to synthesise stable superheavy elements in the 'island of stability'
may be relevant in the construction of SD.


Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
(living into the posthuman era would be fantastic ; I'm just not
counting on it happening).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:34:28 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Vorkostigan series 

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> > William F. Hostman wrote:
> > > VorKosigan series by Bujold: Sure, the imperium's only 3
> > > systems, but man what a main character: Larger and Smaller
> > > than life, escallating superpolitics, the occasional
> > > superweapons, and very clear good and evil (For the latter,
> > > see Jackson's Whole)
> > 
> > Jackson Whole is not evil! Just that evil pays better.
>
> Let's face it.  The wages of sin aren't taxed.

Wasn't Al Capone convicted on charges of tax evasion?



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:16:35 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)

Hey Keith, since you're the "web monkey" (love that term BTW :) for SJG, do
you think you could see about getting my last name's spelling correct on the
"Far Trader" page?  They blew it for the print run unless it goes 2nd
edition, but it'd be nice if the web was corrected ;)

Best,
Jesse DeGraff, not "DeGraaf"
:)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:44:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "new" critter

In mail you write:

> At 06:03 PM 10/20/99 PST, you wrote:
>>Listening to the news, I hear that they've found an *intact* wooly
>>mammoth in Siberia. Frozen solid. And they are talking about
> cloning. 
>>
>>It should be fairly simple. just insert mammoth DNA into an elephant
>>ovum, implant the ovum in a female elephant, and in a year or so,
>>you'll have a baby mammoth.
>>
>>Of course, they've still got the problem of the DNA being from an
>>adult, and thus limited in the number of divisions before old age
> sets
>>in. That's what's happening to Dolly.
>
>         So you do it often enough to get one each viable male and female,
> who make it to sexual maturity, and work on "natural" progeny,
> probably via artificial insemination and elephant host-mothers until
> you get enough offspring you can try the standard way.

They've got *one* Mammoth body. It'll be male or female. Any clones
will *all* be the same sex as the body.

If the body is male, then *someday*, we may be able to replace the Y
chromosome with a an X taken from another cell. That'd give us a
female. One with *every* recessive gene on that X chromosome paired up,
and thus expressing.

So, if the body is male, it might be possible to get a more or less
damaged female. If the body is female there's no way to get a male.

But, let's go with the male body, and the sickly female clone. 

Any offspring are going to be inbred like you wouldn't believe. *All*
their genes will be from *one* individual. 


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1237
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